Karma

"Your rules are bad and you should feel bad!"
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Jay Belarpin
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Re: Karma

Post by Jay Belarpin » Fri Feb 05, 2016 5:42 pm

So when we have the option to spend $X to instantly boost your character to 100 karma, what happens to the players who don't? Is it possible that introducing a way to go from 20k to 100k at creation is too big a leap? Could we mitigate that with double karma and double gains until 100k? When everybody else is running around with 100k characters will the 20k still feel like a valuable part of the team and viable to play? Will the game balance change to reflect the boost, thus hurting those that don't take it even further?

If we go the route of converting rads to karma I highly suggest that we make the rad unlock table entirely visible. Perhaps not the full details of each race/class unlock but at least what options there are.

I'm going to hazard a guess that this is on the table because Wastelands needs more revenue. What about the option of Pay no Play? Send the event fee in, get rewards and logistics periods as though you went to the event. You still miss out on loot and RP gains but the game gets the money and the player gets the reward. It really isn't any different from a player showing up for a few hours and then leaving except then they don't have to spend the gas to get there.


I don't really care what we choose to do, so long as the game doesn't suffer for our choice. I've NPCed enough to get to the point where additional karma is useful, but not enough that I would actively try to get more. If somebody else wanted to pay their way to get to that point, fine by me.
As all of this happened, Bill poured a drink.

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HK-75
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Karma

Post by HK-75 » Fri Feb 05, 2016 5:56 pm

The rad unlocks really should be listed to the public. Especially the unlockable races/classes, not everything about them, just a short description. If jay hadn't mentioned some of them to me, I may never have chosen to play a tier 2 character which in my opinion is way more fun then the normal.
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Plot
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Re: Karma

Post by Plot » Fri Feb 05, 2016 8:48 pm

There is a separate thread regarding Rads, to keep this conversation out of the weeds.

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Ander
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Re: Karma

Post by Ander » Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:27 pm

While I am still firmly against the idea of paying for extra karma I think the "Pay No Play" option is reasonable. It wouldn't boost you ahead of other players but would simply allow you to keep up if you can't make it to a particular event. I'm not necessarily in favor of it, but it is a reasonable compromise.

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Swordguy
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Re: re 100

Post by Swordguy » Sat Feb 06, 2016 10:40 am

Plot wrote:100 as a fixed number or 100 as an earned number?

As in, when there's 100 on the sheet, or when the PC has earned 100 Karma?
When there's 100 Karma on the sheet.

And I actually really like the idea of "pay no play". Limiting purchased Karma by event dates is a nice compromise, IMO.
Jay Belarpin wrote:When everybody else is running around with 100k characters will the 20k still feel like a valuable part of the team and viable to play? Will the game balance change to reflect the boost, thus hurting those that don't take it even further?
.
Well, 40 Karma to 100 Karma, anyway. We start at 40...

And honestly, I feel that the game balance won't have to change all that much, because right now, it honestly feels like most stuff is statted to deal best with PCs between 100-200 Karma anyway. This is likely a function of not having a lot of NPCs, granted, but that's unlikely to change in the near future.


Do note that I'm totally fine with not attaching money to Karma in any way. But a whole lot of the time, it feels that the "sweet spot" of the game is in the 100-200 karma region (approximately; there's an argument for the range being 75-250). Less than that and your character concept is likely compromised and unable to do what you *want* to do most of the time. More than that, and you start getting into the regions of "I can beat stuff down by virtue of just throwing more game mechanics at it" and "I don't run out of skill uses." I'm in favor of anything that moves players into the "sweet spot" of the mechanics with a quickness, and then keeps them there for as long as possible.

There's always an argument to be made that makes totally new players play at least a couple of games in the <100 Karma region, because they need to get used to the rules. That was brought up earlier and I totally agree. Veteran players don't need that, though; in theory by the time they have to create a secondary character they're going to have enough of a handle on all the rules (even those unconnected to their primary PC) that they don't have to go through the learning procedure a second time.
Mission, Method, Morals...all negotiable.

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Jay Belarpin
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Re: re 100

Post by Jay Belarpin » Sat Feb 06, 2016 1:20 pm

Swordguy wrote: Well, 40 Karma to 100 Karma, anyway. We start at 40...
It was changed to 20 with the addition of staggered karma gains, to counter this fact players under 100 karma now gain 9 per game day. It is on the page after the soldier description (Pg 34 according to my PDF reader).
Swordguy wrote: There's always an argument to be made that makes totally new players play at least a couple of games in the <100 Karma region, because they need to get used to the rules. That was brought up earlier and I totally agree. Veteran players don't need that, though; in theory by the time they have to create a secondary character they're going to have enough of a handle on all the rules (even those unconnected to their primary PC) that they don't have to go through the learning procedure a second time.
So long as we aren't locking new players out of it entirely. If a player is more comfortable with starting at 20 (or whichever number it is at the time) that should be their choice and not one made for them.
As all of this happened, Bill poured a drink.

Plot
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Results

Post by Plot » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:38 pm

***MAJOR HUGE MEGA CHANGE***

Prettt much nothing is being changed except!!!

You may now spend NPC Karma on Rads. The ratio is 1 to 1.

The goal is to further boost the incentives to NPC and reward players whom do, with hidden content, faster -if they choose to do so.

In fact, that's the only change.

Locked