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Rulebook Spell Acquisition

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:06 pm
by Jay Belarpin
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Final Decision Space
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Re: Rulebook Spell Acquisition

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:08 am
by Jay Belarpin
I would like to drop the requirement for grimoires for spells listed in the rulebook.

Under current rules, you can get any spell in the rulebook at creation, and then after that you have to find a grimoire. If you have enchanting, you can make a grimoire of a spell you don’t know (as long as it’s in the rulebook) and learn it that way. It really doesn’t make sense to me that a magician can make instructions to cast a spell that they don’t know how to cast, but only certain ones.

It makes it so you don’t have to spend all 40 karma (35 for elves) to get to a level 5 spell early, nor do you have to plot hard and hope, or drop 28 (36 with chem/medical) more karma plus 20 salvage to craft the ability to spend karma on what you do. It basically helps early magicians but doesn’t really mean much for established magic users who won’t have much issue getting the stuff anyway.

It doesn’t hurt enchanting that much, since grimoires are still needed for transferring hidden spells. If we were concerned, we could always allow “Discovery” grimoires that give you a random spell from a list (which means you may already know it or it may be a rulebook spell).

Re: Rulebook Spell Acquisition

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:41 am
by wormyxl
So if I'm understanding this correctly this would remove all basic spells from the crafting list, or would it just disallow a character to craft the spell if they didn't have the spell? Regardless of which it is, does this make the listed spells available to be purchased with karma without a grimoire?

Re: Rulebook Spell Acquisition

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:05 pm
by Jay Belarpin
There would be less reason to craft a grimoire of (Any rulebook spell) though you could still make one if you wanted.

You couldn't make a grimoire of any spell without knowing the spell.

You could buy the spells listed in the rulebook without a grimoire.

Does that make it clearer?

Re: Rulebook Spell Acquisition

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:45 pm
by wormyxl
Very! I'm for this!

Re: Rulebook Spell Acquisition

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:12 pm
by Olive Wilson
I like it!


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Re: Rulebook Spell Acquisition

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:53 am
by Ander
Jay Belarpin wrote:Under current rules, you can get any spell in the rulebook at creation, and then after that you have to find a grimoire. If you have enchanting, you can make a grimoire of a spell you don’t know (as long as it’s in the rulebook) and learn it that way. It really doesn’t make sense to me that a magician can make instructions to cast a spell that they don’t know how to cast, but only certain ones.
My interpretation of this was that the "rulebook" spells were common enough that you can essentially improvise the recipes from having seen/heard of them. It's a tenuous explanation at best, but it soothes the raging logic-beast within me. :)
Jay Belarpin wrote:It doesn’t hurt enchanting that much, since grimoires are still needed for transferring hidden spells..
I'm not sure this is an accurate statement. Hidden spells are rare enough that you aren't likely to start or even end your first several games with any of them. And before researched/discovered recipes, enchanting really only has two major functions: Talismans and Grimoires. This change would remove fully half of the early-game utility of enchanting. I think just flat-out dropping this requirement is perhaps over-correcting for the problem, when a smaller tweak would alleviate the barrier to starting magicians but leave enchantings low-level usefulness intact.

For example: What if you could pick up rulebook spells without a grimoire: but only one per event? You can pick up as many as you want if you have the grimoires. This also makes sense from a story perspective. In order to learn a spell sans-grimoire you would have to spend a great deal of time studying it, but if you have a grimoire then the study and experimentation has been done for you and you just have to memorize it.

Re: Rulebook Spell Acquisition

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:50 am
by wormyxl
Ander, what about focus crystals? Those are SUPER useful and low level enchanting items.

Re: Rulebook Spell Acquisition

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:59 pm
by Ander
True there are meditation foci. There are also ritual supplies if you have the right skills to use them. And we could debate the exact percentage of enchantings overall utility that the grimoires represent but ultimately it is still a significant portion. I just don't want to see us fix one skill by breaking another. I think a compromise that leaves some use for rulebook spell grimoires would be a more balanced solution.

Re: Rulebook Spell Acquisition

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:04 pm
by jazzman831
I cannot on the effect of this change on the Enchanting skill, since I don't even know what the level 1 enchanting items listed in the rulebook do, let alone the overall balance of the skill from levels 1 to 10.

But the core aspect of the rule I like a lot. There were two things that kept me from considering the Magician class, and the fear of not being able to buy rulebook spells was one of them (the other being I don't think I have the on-demand mental capacity to remember all those numbers). I also never really liked that there were NO limits at character creation (other than karma, of course), and then all the sudden when you start playing you just have to cross your fingers and hope you could find a grimoire of the spell you wanted to learn next.

I also like Ander's modification, where you could only get one non-grimoire spell per game (we may have to define what "between games" means, but that doesn't effect the idea at all). This seems like a good way to split the difference.