Rulebook Spell Acquisition

Not open... yet
Locked
User avatar
Jay Belarpin
Posts: 512
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:45 pm

Rulebook Spell Acquisition

Post by Jay Belarpin » Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:06 pm

-------
Final Decision Space
-------
As all of this happened, Bill poured a drink.

User avatar
Jay Belarpin
Posts: 512
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:45 pm

Re: Rulebook Spell Acquisition

Post by Jay Belarpin » Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:08 am

I would like to drop the requirement for grimoires for spells listed in the rulebook.

Under current rules, you can get any spell in the rulebook at creation, and then after that you have to find a grimoire. If you have enchanting, you can make a grimoire of a spell you don’t know (as long as it’s in the rulebook) and learn it that way. It really doesn’t make sense to me that a magician can make instructions to cast a spell that they don’t know how to cast, but only certain ones.

It makes it so you don’t have to spend all 40 karma (35 for elves) to get to a level 5 spell early, nor do you have to plot hard and hope, or drop 28 (36 with chem/medical) more karma plus 20 salvage to craft the ability to spend karma on what you do. It basically helps early magicians but doesn’t really mean much for established magic users who won’t have much issue getting the stuff anyway.

It doesn’t hurt enchanting that much, since grimoires are still needed for transferring hidden spells. If we were concerned, we could always allow “Discovery” grimoires that give you a random spell from a list (which means you may already know it or it may be a rulebook spell).
As all of this happened, Bill poured a drink.

wormyxl
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:16 am

Re: Rulebook Spell Acquisition

Post by wormyxl » Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:41 am

So if I'm understanding this correctly this would remove all basic spells from the crafting list, or would it just disallow a character to craft the spell if they didn't have the spell? Regardless of which it is, does this make the listed spells available to be purchased with karma without a grimoire?

User avatar
Jay Belarpin
Posts: 512
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:45 pm

Re: Rulebook Spell Acquisition

Post by Jay Belarpin » Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:05 pm

There would be less reason to craft a grimoire of (Any rulebook spell) though you could still make one if you wanted.

You couldn't make a grimoire of any spell without knowing the spell.

You could buy the spells listed in the rulebook without a grimoire.

Does that make it clearer?
As all of this happened, Bill poured a drink.

wormyxl
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:16 am

Re: Rulebook Spell Acquisition

Post by wormyxl » Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:45 pm

Very! I'm for this!

User avatar
Olive Wilson
Posts: 545
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:09 am

Re: Rulebook Spell Acquisition

Post by Olive Wilson » Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:12 pm

I like it!


.

User avatar
Ander
Posts: 752
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:09 pm

Re: Rulebook Spell Acquisition

Post by Ander » Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:53 am

Jay Belarpin wrote:Under current rules, you can get any spell in the rulebook at creation, and then after that you have to find a grimoire. If you have enchanting, you can make a grimoire of a spell you don’t know (as long as it’s in the rulebook) and learn it that way. It really doesn’t make sense to me that a magician can make instructions to cast a spell that they don’t know how to cast, but only certain ones.
My interpretation of this was that the "rulebook" spells were common enough that you can essentially improvise the recipes from having seen/heard of them. It's a tenuous explanation at best, but it soothes the raging logic-beast within me. :)
Jay Belarpin wrote:It doesn’t hurt enchanting that much, since grimoires are still needed for transferring hidden spells..
I'm not sure this is an accurate statement. Hidden spells are rare enough that you aren't likely to start or even end your first several games with any of them. And before researched/discovered recipes, enchanting really only has two major functions: Talismans and Grimoires. This change would remove fully half of the early-game utility of enchanting. I think just flat-out dropping this requirement is perhaps over-correcting for the problem, when a smaller tweak would alleviate the barrier to starting magicians but leave enchantings low-level usefulness intact.

For example: What if you could pick up rulebook spells without a grimoire: but only one per event? You can pick up as many as you want if you have the grimoires. This also makes sense from a story perspective. In order to learn a spell sans-grimoire you would have to spend a great deal of time studying it, but if you have a grimoire then the study and experimentation has been done for you and you just have to memorize it.

wormyxl
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:16 am

Re: Rulebook Spell Acquisition

Post by wormyxl » Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:50 am

Ander, what about focus crystals? Those are SUPER useful and low level enchanting items.

User avatar
Ander
Posts: 752
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:09 pm

Re: Rulebook Spell Acquisition

Post by Ander » Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:59 pm

True there are meditation foci. There are also ritual supplies if you have the right skills to use them. And we could debate the exact percentage of enchantings overall utility that the grimoires represent but ultimately it is still a significant portion. I just don't want to see us fix one skill by breaking another. I think a compromise that leaves some use for rulebook spell grimoires would be a more balanced solution.

User avatar
jazzman831
Posts: 557
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:56 pm

Re: Rulebook Spell Acquisition

Post by jazzman831 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:04 pm

I cannot on the effect of this change on the Enchanting skill, since I don't even know what the level 1 enchanting items listed in the rulebook do, let alone the overall balance of the skill from levels 1 to 10.

But the core aspect of the rule I like a lot. There were two things that kept me from considering the Magician class, and the fear of not being able to buy rulebook spells was one of them (the other being I don't think I have the on-demand mental capacity to remember all those numbers). I also never really liked that there were NO limits at character creation (other than karma, of course), and then all the sudden when you start playing you just have to cross your fingers and hope you could find a grimoire of the spell you wanted to learn next.

I also like Ander's modification, where you could only get one non-grimoire spell per game (we may have to define what "between games" means, but that doesn't effect the idea at all). This seems like a good way to split the difference.
-Jebediah the Proud

Locked