Additional Use of Crafting Buys

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wormyxl
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Re: Additional Use of Crafting Buys

Post by wormyxl » Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:09 pm

I'm of the opinion that spending effort on non-scrap using buffs isn't much different from a magician spending focus to spellcast the buffs. But if the people running the game want to make tags of them prior to game, it doesn't really bother me.

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AnnalyseTaenarys
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Re: Additional Use of Crafting Buys

Post by AnnalyseTaenarys » Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:23 am

wormyxl wrote:I'm of the opinion that spending effort on non-scrap using buffs isn't much different from a magician spending focus to spellcast the buffs. But if the people running the game want to make tags of them prior to game, it doesn't really bother me.
I assume by 'non-scrap' you are referring to salvage?

The difference is that a magician has the flexibility to choose multiple spells at a time based on what's happening during the game at that time.

If you were to craft a buff, you would essentially be crafting an item that uses the buff, giving you more limited resources during game.

For this reason, all crafting should be done prior to the game and you choose the items you wish to craft ahead of time without knowledge of where the game is going to take you (again, going back to that storyline-focus like I always do). As a crafter, I do my crafting ahead of time to make bullets, vests, guns, etc. without knowing if/when I'll need them. Crafting an item to give you a "buff", as you call it (one of the temporary skills mentioned earlier), should also be done the same way, in my opinion.

That's why we gave the skills item names (or most of them...may need to revise Chemical Buffer to Hazmat suit or something...).

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Swordguy
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Re: Additional Use of Crafting Buys

Post by Swordguy » Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:00 am

I feel that this option is both simpler to implement and "smoother" than the Supplier Skill put forth elsewhere. While I feel that actually remembering all the small bonuses is going to be difficult in practice, I'd like to give this a try.

My only relevant suggestion is that these can be handwritten onto off-color (ie, not white or cream) 3x5 note cards and just initialed by N8 and the crafter. That puts most of the OOG logistic burden on the crafter and keeps the shack from having to track a crapton MORE item cards.

(Doing so could also allow someone to use this skill in-game instead of pre-checkin, but I understand if that's not where you want to go.)

Nice solution.
Mission, Method, Morals...all negotiable.

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AnnalyseTaenarys
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Re: Additional Use of Crafting Buys

Post by AnnalyseTaenarys » Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:22 am

Swordguy wrote:I feel that this option is both simpler to implement and "smoother" than the Supplier Skill put forth elsewhere. While I feel that actually remembering all the small bonuses is going to be difficult in practice, I'd like to give this a try.

My only relevant suggestion is that these can be handwritten onto off-color (ie, not white or cream) 3x5 note cards and just initialed by N8 and the crafter. That puts most of the OOG logistic burden on the crafter and keeps the shack from having to track a crapton MORE item cards.

(Doing so could also allow someone to use this skill in-game instead of pre-checkin, but I understand if that's not where you want to go.)

Nice solution.

Hey guys! Rob liked my suggestion! My day (maybe year...) has been made! :D

wormyxl
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Re: Additional Use of Crafting Buys

Post by wormyxl » Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:42 am

Ok, Let me try and rephrase my statement to add some clarity. You can simplify this entire thing by removing logistics from the equation when talking about these extra "things" you can "make." Treat them like skills that have use the effort you have left. Whatever effort you have left over after doing your pre-game crafting can be used while in game to fuel these skills.

Ex: You've crafted a bunch of armor as an engineer prior to the game, but you have 6 unused effort. While ingame you can use 1 of that 6 effort to give someone the Battle Hardening effect. You now have 5 effort left to use any other time that event. No writing out a card, no taking up logistics' time.

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jazzman831
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Re: Additional Use of Crafting Buys

Post by jazzman831 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:48 pm

Re: Chemical Buffer:

When I called it "buffer" I was thinking more along the lines of "buffer solution", i.e. one that resists changes in pH. So it's still sort of a "thing".

Re: Pre-game vs Mid-game Usage:

If we want to get rid of jury-rigging entirely (and I think it's pretty much decided that, except for warding, nobody really uses it or likes it), then it makes sense to make item creation at-will during game time.

However, and I don't have a solid in-game or out-of-game reasoning for this, it "feels" better to me to have all crafting done pre-game. I guess one argument for this is that if you do crafting mid-game, then there should be some sort of time and/or workspace requirement (a la jury-rigging) in order to create the new thing, and that greatly lowers the usefulness. If you are tromping out in the woods dodging zombies you won't have the time or space to build little widgets. But I like the idea of making a bunch of reactionary or preemptive devices with leftover parts from crafting. "I've got some wire and chemicals left over from making these batteries so I'll solder the wire to my armor to siphon off potential electricity damage and rig up the vial of chemicals to explode the next time I hit something."

I mean functionally it works either way, though the more flexible version is also more powerful (you won't end up, for instance, buying up a bunch of electrical resistance and then wade into a band of normal zombies; you'll pad your armor instead).

Re: Logistics:

I think Rob's idea (and I think maybe Morgan mentioned it too) of a simple card that lists all your temp items will not be an increased burden on logistics. How the system works today is a crafter says "hey, logistics, I'm making this list of things" and logistics checks your math and gives you the item cards for those things. With temporary items the conversation becomes "hey, logistics, I'm making this list of things (some of which are written on a separate piece of paper)" and logistics checks your math, gives you the item cards for those things, and signs your extra piece of paper.

Re: the skills/items themselves:

Does anyone have any comments about the skills or have ideas for new ones? I tried to create a consistent power/effort ratio, but obviously there's some subjectivity in there. I also wanted more things like "USB Key" that provide non-combat-specific applications, but I couldn't really think of any. I play a combat character, after all...
-Jebediah the Proud

Plot
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Re: Additional Use of Crafting Buys

Post by Plot » Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:08 pm

Could logistics hand you a checklist of buffs you can make and let you tally the numbers?

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jazzman831
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Re: Additional Use of Crafting Buys

Post by jazzman831 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:30 pm

That could totally work.
-Jebediah the Proud

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AnnalyseTaenarys
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Re: Additional Use of Crafting Buys

Post by AnnalyseTaenarys » Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:50 pm

Ok, I'm sorry to get technical here, but I really don't like the idea of calling it a "buff." It's bugging me. The idea of the crafting is to make "items" that would correlate with skills/abilities.

My whole idea started from having a bunch of extra crafting effort to make items. I believe all the crafting should be done ahead of time because of storyline reasons that Jebediah already mentioned. You can't take the time in game to craft the things for the specific scenario, you just have to scrounge for what's in your possession and hope you have something that will help.

I feel like we are trying to get away from realistic scenarios in this thread while arguing for them in others. Unless I'm completely misinterpreting your term of "buff." I realize Jeb's table mentioned a Chemical or Environmental Buffer, but these would still be items. The table/skills/names are up for debate and rewriting as it was just a first draft.

Ultimately, I'm very averse to being able to use the crafting effort in game and to using them as "buffs." Sorry to be picky.

wormyxl
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Re: Additional Use of Crafting Buys

Post by wormyxl » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:07 am

Does wastelands still have the "mid event crafting rush" that it used to?

Annalyse, is it possible to stack these items? Can I use 3 Battle Hardenings to ignore the next 3 non-direct damage? Can I have a battle hardening, environmental buffer, and grounding wire at the same time?

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